ID cards; big brother or big nothing?

Question

In this country (UK) we used to have ID cards during the war and they were phased out. France have identity cards and don't baulk at having to use them - which is very un-french. So why are we so anti? Is it because we are secretive or clandestine, no, so is it just something else to got hot under the collar about as we haven't had a poll tax riot in a long time. I would like to hear from people as well who have them, what are your views of having them?

Answer 1

i cant see them making much difference, just like fake passports & id theft, im sure the same will come from ID cards..



In spain they have always had these ID cards, these cards must be carried at all times, if asked by the police to show ID & you dont have it, you will recieve a big fine...infact in spain without these cards its quite difficult to do anything...



This didnt stop the madrid bombings...

Answer 2

I am very anti ID cards and there are a few reasons for that:



First I come from Egypt where they have ID cards and have done so for 50 years. That has done nothing to deter terrorists. Sharm for example has one of the most stringent security checks...yet there are still bombings. So if it doesn't help national security why are they promoting it as such (sounds like another 'Saddam has weapons of mass destruction' ploy)



Second in Egypt it is FREE I refuse to pay even more money to a government that won't be happy until everything I earn is given to them.



3rd every time the government has come up with a silly scheme it has led to failure. Let us use the most recent example in the news Junior Doctors and this new website for applying...after so many hospitals have pulled out of the scheme they have had to admit they were wrong and are now changing it...in my personal view this is a great opportunity for them to screw up.



4th I am a law abiding citizen I am a Muslim and an Arab......I have already been stopped under the prevention of terrorism act a number of times, which is fine. But should the need be there, with my details they can make me a scapegoat...NO THANKS. I have worked hard all my life and don't want it thrown away like the people in Guantanamo or the lads from Birmingham who were taken away for a week and then they realised they are ordinary citizens....

Answer 3

I have to say that I am not comfortable with the notion of ID cards. We already have ID that we can produce when required (driving licence, passport, etc.) and I don't see the need for any more.



I also dislike the fact that it is the public who will have to fund these cards - estimates have gone up to £100+, which seems more than excessive.



Mostly, though, I am concerned about the kind of information that would be stored on the cards: fingerprints, iris scans, blood types, etc. I am very uncomfortable with this much information being stored about me on a central database. I know the old adage that 'it won't matter if you've nothing to hide', but I don't agree. I dislike the idea that the government would have all these details, I consider it an infringement upon my civil liberties; but moreso I am concerned about the security of the information. I'm sure that we will be told that there will be plenty of security measures, but, let's face it, the Home Office cannot locate its own backside so I don't trust it to look after my details and protect them from fraudsters and identity thieves.



I'm sure that ID cards will come to Britain - this government does whatever it likes without reference to the people - but I, for one, won't support them.

Answer 4

I think national id cards are a good idea. For 2 reasons it can be used a proof of id for a multitude of things. Just think 1 size fits all, It means no having to get a separate passport, debit card, national insurance card, driving licence. It would be on 1 card. It would also counter terrorism as well because the police would stop you and put it into a machine and it would give details whether or not they have a criminal record.



The only people who dont want an national id card are people with something to hide. The only problem with it is the cost I think its will cost about £81 each.

Answer 5

I agree with pretty much everything that As_It_Is and Ivan R had to say.



I would add the government are twisting themselves into knots trying to justify id cards. First they said their main purpose was to combat the threat of terrorism. Then when pushed on the matter, they admitted that they wouldn't be effective for that purpose. Then they said they were to combat benefit fraud, and had to admit that they wouldn't be effective for that either. Then they tried identity theft as a justification, until it was shown that id cards might actually make it easier for criminals to steal somebodies identity.



So it must be asked, what exactly are they for? I suspect the real reason this government has in mind is to gather marketing information, so that businesses can inundate us with "targeted" spam and junk mail. But in the future, perhaps under an even more unethical government, they could be used as a very sinister means to limit our freedom.

Answer 6

I still cant see any real security in the cards they like any security document have to be made and if a product can be manufactured it can be forged or easier still bought like it or not every thing does have it's price this is not necessarily financial threat and fear can also make people venerable so the security of these cards is questionable without the invasion of peoples right to privacy

If a system can be devised that is not forgeable I might be convinced but this would have to be 100% fool proof or there is No point in instigating it

Answer 7

If ID cards were used for ID only no problem it is the proposal to sell your information to any company that is prepared to pay for it that worries me. The ultimate would be for every person to have a readable chip or bar code on your neck which could be installed at birth then the dictators would know where and what you are doing from cradle to grave . Science fiction has a way of becoming true.

Answer 8

I don't think we need ID cards - what it the point?



If I open a new bank account, or am required to give id, I use my passport or driving licencse.



If it is to stop nasty terrorists blowing things up - try telling people that live in Madrid that it works.



Besides, who will look after the records? How safe are they going to be?



What if my identity is stolen? Now, I can start with other accounts. What is my iris scan is compromised by fraudsters? I can't get myself a new eyeball or finger prints!

Answer 9

In my opinion it is a good thing. I'm a college student at the moment but 19 so it is hard without a driving lisence which i'm not paying £40 for when I don't want to learn to drive or a standard ID card which takes forever in the post and then its not accepted at most places or a passport when I've never been abroad.



Being asked to prove who you are without photographic idea is very difficult and with all these new legistlations of having to 'prove' everything ID cards would be an excellent way to do it. I don't particularly think it is a Big Brother system but i'd like to know that as long as we have them, underage kids will stop buying booze or fags.

Answer 10

Big Brother. Think of the Oyster Card for teenagers, it allows people to watch their movements. An ID card would be just as bad. OK, I don't know about us being secretive people, but I agree that we love to reject ideas and attack proposals by the government. But with that said, I still think that it would be exactly like the government watching us. So I say NO ID!!

Answer 11

Perhaps it's because they're a weak answer to a complex issue? Or perhaps it's because the Government themselves don't entirely know what problems the ID card will solve? Or perhaps it's because Government is known to change its stance regarding just *what* issues the ID card *should* solve? Or perhaps it's because the ID card won't actually solve any single issue, but only serve to "make it someone else's problem"? Or perhaps it's that the ID card, and associated technologies, are flawed by design because the technology to implement them as promised just isn't sufficiently capable enough? Or perhaps it's because Government has a nasty habit of implementing seemingly 'liberating' Acts of Parliament that, somewhere down the road, turn out to serve an entirely contradictory agenda? (Nonsense!) Or perhaps it's because we're not just talking about a card with our ID on it, but a nationwide database profiling us, as individuals, based on information acquired by means beyond our legal control? Or perhaps it's because some Britons who actually get off their asterixes have had enough with being told what to do, when to do it, how to do it, where to do it and who to do it to, that they're in a prime position to glance behind the veil of 'democracy' and recognise that the ID card - as proposed by this Government - has only one true and disingenuous purpose: promote a surveillance state? Or perhaps it's because the ID card is just another step closer to tagging us at birth, classifying us in youth and conditioning us in adulthood? Or perhaps it's for all these reasons, and much, much more besides?



If you're for the ID card, fine - keep quiet, don't rock the boat and live comfortably in the knowledge that "I've nothing to hide, so I've nothing to fear" and being a private citizen means little to me. But if you believe in privacy - especially if you're middle class, where your vote actually counts - then let it be known, because if you give Government - any Government - an inch then they *will* take a yard. They live, we sleep (in a stupor).



Fascist Spain, Nazi Germany, Communist Russia - history has taught us nothing... Our American cousins have a Bill of Rights whose whole purpose is to *restrict* the powers of Government (okay, so it's cracking under federal presure), whereas we in the UK have 24 hours drinking laws and almost a quarter of the world's CCTV so's to give hoodies something to hide their faces from. Go figure.



But anyway, yes: the ID card is just another something-bloody-else to get all hot under the collar over. ;-)

Answer 12

The holes in the system, if they had been brought in a long time ago there might even be less danger because they would not be geared towards the modern information age.



For example, there is space to record things many of us do not wish to be seen. Our shopping habits, our voting history for example. Not only should this be private but there is the opportunity for companies such as supermarkets to record the data for their advertising and product analysis. Then is the category of religion. Many feel this should not be recorded because it will unfairly bias towards criminal investigations.

Answer 13

On a political/freedom level, I welcome them. I've lived in France where every resident MUST have an ID card, even EU citizens.

In the 18 months I was there, I never got asked for mine once by the police, but used it conveniently to prove who I was when writing a cheque, getting high value items delivered, at the bank etc.

A very useful tool that proves only you are who you say you are and your address.



On a practical level I don't see why I need:

-an NI card and number

-UTR (Unique Tax Reference)

-Passport with a unique number

-a driving licence with a unique number

-An NHS card with a unique number

-numerous profiles storing the same information duplicated across hundreds of IT systems for my GP, dentist etc.



I would prefer that a single government issued card holds all my data in once place and entitlements can be added/removed as necessary e.g. driving licences, points etc. rather than having loads of documents and references.



On the note of IT - it is only since the current government first entered power in 1997 that there has been a series of catastrophic IT projects usually outsourced at extortionate amounts and badly delivered...

Answer 14

The "nothing to hide" argument is bunkum. The point is that you have a right to privacy.



Okay, so let's pretend for a moment that the billions of pounds the system will cost to implement is actually worthwhile and wouldn't be better used tending to our dying healthcare and education systems.



Let's say that your personal data is stored in a 'secure' (quotes used due to the appalling security track record our government has) system which can only be accessed by duly authorised people. For those people, what's to stop them looking up their co-workers in a moment of boredom? What about their spouse? What about you? Why do they have a right to know everything about you? The impression that only 'government agencies' have access to your data is incorrect. Those agencies are made up of people, and people are universally nosy.



And even then, what good does it do? The prototype cards have already been successfully duplicated with relatively inexpensive equipment. Having a single definitive source of identification - and particularly one of this type - makes it easier for a determined criminal to forge their identity, not harder.



If you've got nothing to hide, then surely you'll have no problem supplying me with your bank statements, email and phone records for the last 6 years.

Answer 15

We have so many other forms of ID why do we need yet another card?



It's not for law enforcement, the Police can already arrest if they don't know or believe who you are. It won't stop terrorists or professional criminals, they will get good forgeries. So why do we need to waste more tax payers money on this scheme? Invest the money into the NHS instead.

Answer 16

i am going to change your life forever if you do what I ask. Look into the Illuminati and the plans of the new world order the plans are in motion but be warned the information is not for the stupid or brainwashed .I am a warrior for freedom I have decieded to fight against the secret society as i am no ones slave and remember what doing nothing did when the Nazi party took control of Germany. You need to ask yourself this are you a brainwashed moron or can you still think and use evidence to form conclusions

Answer 17

We are becoming a dictatorship and these I.D cards are just part of the whole sinister plan by this government to control every aspect of our lives. We have every right to be worried by this as our days as a democracy are slowly ending. The people of this country must make a collective stand against this government before its too late.

Answer 18

ive got a driving licence with my photo on it but when you get stopped they now have a machine which identifies you through your fingerprints,so whats the point of the licence,they are bringing out very expensive new passports which hold all your details,so why id cards,its a matter of civil rights,we already have the most cctv,the police are always beating people up and getting away with it,they love people like you

Answer 19

I don't see any problem with having an identity card since people will know of where you come from(country) if yuo were to lose your passport people would help you using that.



Do you know that every one in the whole world wants to be a citizen of the UK and if ID cards were introduced it would be made impossible for non citizens to acquire your citizenship. My opinion.

Answer 20

I've had an ID card since moving to Switzerland in 1971. Personally, it's not a problem. The only problem I have is the format. The Swiss citizens card has been in credit card format for several years, but the foreign residents card is larger. For most purposes my credit card format Swiss driving licence is enough.



Way back in 1979, when Hong Kong was still a Crown Colony, I had to carry an ID card (credit card format) and I didn't hear any objections from other Brits. Surely ID cards would make it easier to track true illegal immigrants and avoid paying social benefits to those who were really not entitled to them. Asylum seekers whose case was still under consideration would be issued a card, as would legal foreign nationals. In Switzerland such cards are a different colour from the Swiss national ID card, and instantly recognisable .What's the problem?

Answer 21

To me they look like being expensive and achieving nothing. Any value they might be thought to have as a more reliable form of ID will simply incentivise the fraudsters. Just another government "solution" that isn't, but costs us anyway.

Answer 22

Not a big deal. Most of us have one anyway in one form or another - passports, driving licence, work ID, student ID.



So what is the problem.



I know people say it will be big brother watching you - yeah right. How arethey going to deal with that much information.



We are being watched right now - people can trace exactly what you are doing by using CCTV, financial records, mobile phone records etc.



I tihnk they are a good thing.

Answer 23

My Grandad is vehemently against the idea of ID cards. He had one during the second world war, and didn't like how often the police stopped you and asked to see your ID card.



Personally I don't see a big problem, as long as they limit the amount of information on them.

Answer 24

I agree with the principle of having a single ID card that could possibly replace passports and driving licences. I don't think we should have to pay a fortune for one on top of our passport and driving licence. I do have concerns about the amount of personal information stored on them and who would actually have access to that information.

Answer 25

im a uk resident and i have to say i honestly believe this is just another way for 'big brother' to keep an eye on us. Already in london we have the oyster card which can track movements of individuals.....more cctv...all in the name of safety or so we are told.

i will remain adament Id shouldnt come in to effect.

Answer 26

big brother..



only the immigrants coming in should be quized about ID.

We have our own ID in terms of passport and driving licences.



do you think a terrorist having an ID card (as the ones here are born here) will deter them blowing us and themselves up?

No!!!

Answer 27

i think they are a great idea, I've got nothing to hide, the only people who seem to object to them are those who are up to no good, or the P.C of this country who like to interfere with every new thing that comes along, as for an invasion of my privacy, well if I'm doing nothing wrong, what the problem, and anyway with all the CCTV that's around these days i dare say that if anyone wants to know what I'm up to, they would be able to find out very easily

Answer 28

I use my photo driving licence as ID and its always accepted so I don't see the need for another one. What I really object to is being asked to pay through the nose for something I don't want or feel I need.

Answer 29

It's not a big issue for me really. If the government introduces ID cards I will happily accept them.



I struggle to believe that MI5 is really interested in most British peoples' lives, which are generally boring and mundane to them (mine included!!).



Introducing ID cards will cost millions, if not billions, of pounds and any problems will undoubtedly be ironed out before they are properly introduced.

Answer 30

I don't have a problem with ID cards, but I don't think it will stop all the baddies etc, most of the nutters that are causing these problems are home grown so they will have the cards anyway.

Answer 31

If you are a honest person with nothing to hide I don't see why there would be a problem with ID cards. We have virtually got them already with passports, photo driving license etc. Big Brother is already watching - they know what cashpoints/bank you use, they know what you buy at the supermarket via your loyalty card, CCTV is everywhere. I can see no getting away from it.

Answer 32

I don't understand what all the fuss is about!!!

We carry ID in the form of bank cards and driving licences (the police can even use it to check you're insured) so a formal ID card isn't going to make a lot of difference. Our movements are fairly easy to trace now-a-days and I doubt the Police are going to be stopping us every five minutes asking to see them! Not enough man-power to do that!!!

Answer 33

These are smart ID cards we're talking about with chips and linked to one or more databases. Its not just that you might get occasionally asked by police to produce your ID. No limits have been given as to how many times a day we might be required to present them. You may need them to be scanned when entering/exiting public buildings such as hospitals, or even any workplace. Or when at library.. and perhaps recording which books you loan out. When going on a train or buying petrol.



You will be profiled... all your daily habits, travel, places you visit... logged and recorded. Over time it will generate quite an accurate profile of you. Government has already been hit by accusations that it planned to sell some profiling information to companies. Information is power... and the databases will be powerful information... which has the power to corrupt. You may think you have "nothing to hide" from todays "honest" Government... but you may be considered a subversive to tomorrow's dictatorial government.

Answer 34

I think people are wise to be cautious. You can't give blind control over to your government. That being said you can't be paranoid either. As long as people keep aware and make sure abuses don't go unchecked I'd say it's OK to have them.

Answer 35

we need ID for getting in2 pubs and getting can's

it's ok there BUT for the people out side the uk yes they MUST for people witein the uk no ID f the uk people

Answer 36

Hello,



(ANS) I find the prospect of the government imposing ID cards on everyone rather sinister to be honest with you. NOT because I have anything to hide but because a) I'm not being given a choice in the matter b) there has NOT been a country wide poll or referendum about the issue c) Successive governments have a terrible track record of implementing large scale IT computer projects, examples are CSA, passport office, NHS computer network, etc,etc (they are always way over budget and never on time anyway).



d) The technology is still quite suspect too for example iris recognition systems have been proven not to have 100% accuracy and this brings doubt into the system. Which means it could mistake a persons biometric data.



**The government has constantly changed its mind on why? it wants us to have ID cards anyway. Firstly it was to counter terrorism after 9/11 but even government minister Charles Clark at the time had to admitt ID cards wouldnt prevent another attack on that scale. Why? because ALL the 9/11 bombers had ID cards or passports thats how they got onto the flights to carry out the attacks. So that makes a non sense on the issue of terrorism.



**ID cards to counter ID theft well thats a more legimate reason I can see the logic of this. But this is more related to the control of capitol & banking as far as I can see.



**The government wants us to have ID cards for access to benefits & services like the NHS,etc. OK! again that seems a fair arguement. But lets just be up front about that, no hidden government agendas over it.



**My concern is who has access to any large scale central government database that would hold our personal data (thats 60million+ people in the UK). And secondly how do we know how the data would be used. This kind of data can be extremely powerfull.



**Also who would over see the accuracy of any data held about me? what if the data was wrong what would happen in that sort of circumstance?.



**ID Cards for migration & emmigration used to control the flow of people & workers, again this starts to feel rather big brother 1984 ish!!



**The issue for me about ID cards is about freedom of choice and the security of my data & the security of my privacy. ID cards feels like a loss of civil liberties as I wouldnt have any control over personal data held about me, yet its my own data its a paradox with which I dont feel at all comfortable. I'm totally against the ID cards scheme and the government control freakery that goes with it. No! to ID cards full stop.



IR

Answer 37

Yes, it's Big Brother. Trust me in Brasil things are a nightmare because ofthese stupid bloody things. I used to be glad I lived in the UK until I heard about the crackpot scheme to introduce them here.

Answer 38

i dont mind having an ID card. i got nothing to hide. our passports and driving licineas are a form of ID, and we use them to prove our age. and i do think its about time that our passports became electronic. the gov have to make sure that the id cards cannot be fordged like other and that our info is kept with high security

Answer 39

Erm mate you need to think before your nose.





the mafia, dogy laboritories, bad companies etc can all check IDs to spto journalists and anyone who would be politically against them.





As can police at any demonstration say against arms fairs or keep anyone against a foreign dictors arrival .





ie bad guys check IDs as well.



Plus ours will have more info then the french ones and the government and companies all sell info to anyone who pays. Plus it gets hacked or the info could be innacurate.





Many bad governments have misused the ID system like nazis.





Your ENTIRE history will be on them, every petition you ever signed, every little job say when a girl worked in a sauna as despirate to stop her finding work, say if you have medical conditions or say you had an abortion.



Plus as said if you are likly to give a company any grief for its bad or immoral activities it will lable you as an activist etc.



The police are not always good especailly when it comes to anything political.



its not so simple mate.





Plus the real bad guys will find a way around them

Answer 40

Because governments are not the peoples' friend

Answer 41

It's all about the new world order ans its control over our lives...nothing to hide, sir?

Answer 42

If you like ID cards, then you will love RFIDs. Just wait for this to be a government solution. Then an individual can be tracked everywhere he goes, everything he buys. It would be frightening.

Answer 43

Oh Great I am doomed

The gas people know my gas useage

The electric people know my electric useage

BT knows all the telephone numbers I dial and so do Orange.

The various government departments know everything about the car I drive, about my birth, where I live etc

There are companies that know about my credit rating.

Sky know what I watch on TV

Even tesco know about my shopping trends.



I might as well cut my wrists now, everyone knows too much about me.



Seriously I havnt got a problem with them, most stuff about is already recorded somewhere.

Answer 44

I predict a riot!

Answer 45

I have lived with ID cards all my life in South Africa - and I see nothing wrong with it. Why people are being paranoid beats me.

Answer 46

I think its a good idea , would help. Look how much identity fraud there is , surley this can only be a help.

If we all had ID everyone wouyld be able to prove who they really are.

Bring it on..

Answer 47

its just another reason for the goverment to squeeze money out of us and be control freaks!!!

Answer 48

anything that combats fraud, credit card etc. has to be a good thing. if it helps prevent benefit fraud too even better.



It is not as if any of the information on it could not be found out fairly easily in the first place. it just brings it together with your photo etc..

Answer 49

I have no problem with ID cards as I have nothing to hide and I would welcome them even more if any one found without one was taken straight to Heathrow and put on a plane and sent anywhere but here.

Answer 50

i've got nothing to hide and couldn't care less either way. the press make these issues seem bigger than they are and have a lot to answer for.

Answer 51

we have that many forms of id (passport, driving license etc) what difference would one more make?

it wouldnt bother me to be honest

Answer 52

It wuuldn't bother me if we had them. I've got nothing to hide.

Answer 53

A lot of big something.

Answer 54

big brother.