Question:
Do the UK anti-immigration lobby realise that reduced migration will reduce GDP per capita in the long run?
?
11 years ago
This is simply because there are less workers for each pensioner. The UK population aged 65 and above has in the past decade increased from 12% to 17%, and by 2060 it is estimated to reach 26%.

The overall birth rate trend is falling (roughly by 36% since 1965) and since 1979 onwards it has become increasingly expensive (and now nearly impossible since 2010) for UK households to produce skilled or educated labour.. simply in terms of wages, education, housing and childcare.

Entry rates for higher education have plummeted by 12% since 2009 particularly for tuition fees and vocational training is virtually non-existent and falling. Housing prices are insane and procreation seems to be sensible only for the very few.. earning in excess of £60,000, who also have to struggle.

The gist is that the vast majority of the generation of people coming to the workforce from 2020 to 2030 who were born in the UK will be unskilled and largely uneducated and are more than likely to be utterly unemployable if they originate from other regions other than the Southeast or some parts of Scotland.

If we don't have more immigrants there will be no one to pay our pensions, which are already under huge pressure. Additionally the economy would falter and ultimately fail.

I think we need to have all the Romanians and Bulgarians we can get while the goings good. They come ready educated and indeed far more socialised and civilized than our domestic product.
Fifteen answers:
11 years ago
That's all well and good for the elite rich and global corporations I suppose who are bound to benefit from a further drop in real wages, and there will be given that those coming into the country will accept much lower wages, but for the majority of those of us who live in this country the standard of living can only get worse if immigration isn't reduced and the population level doesn't decline

Where do you propose we draw the line here in terms of population growth?

An increasing population now will result in an increasing number of those retiring later in life in the future so who will pay for their retirement?

This is not some pyramid scheme to take advantage scheme, these are real people we're talking about, some of whom are yet to be born

The days of final salary payment pensions are gone and governments have put more pressure on individuals to pay for their retirement themselves, hence why we're seeing automatic pension schemes and an increase in the retirement age as we head towards more people living into their hundreds due to medical improvements that stretch out human life long beyond its original intentions

But although we now have what's known as a minimum wage, companies are under no obligation to actually pay that out and hence why we're seeing the rise of zero hour contracts for instance

Anybody from a poor country will welcome such meagre wages when it makes them feel better off and if you're used to living in poor conditions you're not going to complain too much as the level we experience now falls to their current levels. And some will settle for much less than the rest of us as they send money home where it's worth far more to their families due to the conversion rate alone

In addition you'll see an increase in corruption as a result of the cultural trends that certain countries have

All of which means more and more people will either be on lower wages or benefits and there will be a reduction in taxes per head of population

Now what about those in this country already and their offspring or even the immigrants that we bring in and their offspring that fall into this employment trap you refer to and so as you say become uneducated and unemployable?

Are you proposing that we simply sideline them and not address that part of the problem?

Because what you're suggesting seems to be either to leave them on a lifetime of benefits, which means taxes must go up for those of us above low wages or more likely those who are poor but employed start paying taxes

Or would you rather we abandon them to charities and more likely give them shorter lives spent being homeless?

More interestingly where do you propose all of the people live?

This country is already one of the most densely populated countries in the world and it's only going to get worse as a result of a population rise that's due to immigration along with the additional offspring they will have

The NHS is already struggling, our schools are becoming overcrowded, transport is getting more congested, more and more people are chasing fewer houses while the available land declines

The current generation is already struggling to get on the property ladder as it is and as the population continues to rise then people will be crammed into smaller and smaller accommodations which they won't even be able to afford to buy

Life will simply get worse and worse for future generations and we'll go back to the days of one class of the elite rich and everyone else will be poor. And I mean poor as in the workhouse days

Don't believe the c*** that current politicians tell you. The Tory party were once the only rich party to benefit from this sort of thing, now Labour politicians are just rich boys as well, fresh out of public school. Worse yet these left wing ones still have a chip on their shoulder; They increased immigration simply to insult the Tories. It's ridiculous. Rich people trying to snub even richer people. They aren't even part of the original working class this party came from

When there is a problem, you shouldn't be focusing on just the symptoms. What needs to be tackled is the actual problem itself

If as you say this country isn't educating its youth then that's what needs to be dealt with, not bringing in educated people from abroad as then the problem only gets worse

As history as shown, countries have coped perfectly well when they had smaller populations. Common sense tells you that when they reach a certain limit they will break
11 years ago
Do the UK anti-immigration lobby realise that reduced migration will reduce GDP per capita in the long run?





So what, contrary to what the Socialist Liars say there is no poverty in UK anyway, I know I am on just above minimum wage and live in what is supposed to be a deprived area, yeh, sure, not rich, but certainly not poor.



The immigration is putting too much strain on resources, there are probably about 2 million houses too few, which is why house prices are so high, your comment about indigenous discrimination is grasping at straws, because it is purely ethnic, where Indian sub continent out perform UK who out perform African/Caribbean, and shows your prejudices more than people worrying about how many teachers there are, and will be needed to keep up with the sudden influx.



Privatising solves nothing, privatising means letting Politicians run something which always fails.



The flood gates were opened by Blair/Brown because they were working on Adam smith and the fact he noted the growth in overall wealth where there was an influx of new immigrants. however that was also tied in with wilderness and land into which to expand (USA/Australia/Africa/Canada) Africa failed because of corruption.



USA had (indeed still has) lots of under utilised land, UK doesn't, but did benefit from the effects of depressing inflation which immigration has, and keepig costs low, hwile it conned people into belieiving that a minimum wage doesn't cost jobs.



Also it didn't invest in viable energy, (lIke Nuclear) which has incresed as the population rose, but actually less Electricty generation which is why it is costing so much, the energy companies can sell more than they can produce so you pay through the nose.
11 years ago
It isn't as simple as you make out, GDP isn't a measure of quality of life in the UK at all, unless you are a chartered accountant that is.



You mention housing, and yes as you rightly say we don't have enough of it, and therefore it is expensive and hard to find. I cannot see that immigration can help this problem though. Is our population density not high enough for you or something? Britain is already densely populated, the countries with higher densities are all either experiencing problems or are tiny city states.



Procreation doesn't seem difficult for migrants to be honest, I'm not saying they shouldn't do that, but eventually the kids grow up and want to live somewhere.



I'm not anti-immigration though, but I simply can't agree with opening borders to the world, or making endless exceptions. OK so we agreed to freedom of European movement, that much is clear, we could try to renegotiate, but there wasn't really any provision on that when we signed up. Outside of the euro-zone though, why dish out all of these visas all over the place? You realise that Cameron simply dumped his plan to limit immigration in favour of business needs.
Disgruntled the Cat with the Hat
11 years ago
Lol I get what you are saying but there will still be a problem when the current crop of workers retires, it is an ongoing situation and always will be while current workers pay the pensions of those who are currently retired, perhaps they should make the stakeholder pension compulsory from the time you start work but also they should have clamped down on the pension fund companies years ago, they are talking about reducing the percentage that can be taken in commission and charges, they should stop talking about it and get on with it, the alternative is to keep on shipping in migrants until they are all standing on each other's shoulders!
?
11 years ago
I think your taking a lot for granted with these immigrants, because what makes you so sure that these people will pay for our future pensions, because I don't think they will, your own rhetoric is proof enough of that "They come ready educated and indeed far more socialized and civilized than our domestic product.", say no more.



But regardless, we've only got to look at our own present day example of how we don't want to pay the pensions of people who were born an bred here by increasing the pension age, so what makes you so sure that these immigrants will pay for our pensions.



Like I said, I don't think they will, they are prepared to enjoy the fruits of past labors today but come tomorrow when it comes to paying for em, NO.



I'm sorry but at one in three of all new births today having a foreign parent, no chance, its too many.



I can understand your argument because it does make sense "on paper" but in reality I think its seriously flawed, all we are doing by allowing mass immigration now, today, is making matters worse for future tomorrows.
11 years ago
I would say this to those who support more and more immigration, "where and when do you stop?". Or, in your view would it be ok for the UK population to rise endlessly? Where do these people live? Where do their go to school? Where do they go for hospital treatment? The NHS and schools can't cope with the current population. The Country is full, it's about time to stop immigration. I don't care where people are coming from or what colour they are, the UK is full.
Tequila....
11 years ago
We are spending money funding unemployed immigrants...do the pro immigration lobby recognise that?



How can unemployed and undereducated immigrants be considered an asset....they cost now and no doubt will continue to do so.?



And educated? Pro immigration lobbyists always claim immigrants are better educated....they may well have shed loads of fake qualifications but how many are really educated?



Doctors 'trained' in the third world are not as well trained and are more likely to get struck off than those trained here.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2401997/Straight-A-students-forced-abroad-study-medicine-NHS-recruits-record-foreign-doctors.html



How many non English speaking taxi drivers, waiters and curry chefs does a small country need?



You asked for details.....http://poverty.org.uk/47/index.shtml



Edit

Uk citizens .....given uk passports so immigrants or children of immigrants. They are overly represented as being unemployed....why add more to the mix? Between 2000 and 2013 more than two million foreigners ( immigrants) were given UK passports......



http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-2427633/Over-2million-UK-passports-handed-foreigners-2000-One-immigrant-British-citizen-half-minutes.html



How many unemployed do we have? How are they contributing anything?
11 years ago
that's absolute BS and you know it or should.. smaller populations are wealthier genius, you don't know the first thing about economics reading that guff..



and if you're an example of our 'domestic product' you might have a narrow point there however.



we need to shrink too 30-40 million to be a happy, healthy and wealthy island once again..



here's an example of insane imagination policy we have in the UK, the NHS sucks in vast amounts of foreigners, doing well paid jobs treating people they hate for the symptoms of prolonged deprivation their children will suffer from for the want of well paid jobs and a substandard unequal and un-egalitarian investment in education..
Barbara Doll to you
11 years ago
I think most people are aware about the future pension situation.My questions are not regarding immigration as much as why is the government still taking so much money off us now if it already knows it won't be able to look after us when we are old. Let us keep our hard earned money and save it ourselves for our old age.
jag341
11 years ago
I am not anti anything in particular, BUT we are running out of space. UK is now the most densely populated area in Europe. Lets even this out by asking the others to bring their average up to ours before any other type on control is brought in
11 years ago
We have millions underemployed,and unemployed.

We educare,re-educate,train,and retrain,we USE,are own people,properly.

Anyone can do some job well.

We need no low pay,low quality imported labour.

We have plenty here already.
soñador
11 years ago
A lot of pensioners like me have gone abroad and become immigrants ourselves. I couldn't afford to live in the UK on my pension!
RAH RAH
11 years ago
You are assuming all immigrants come here to work..the governments own figures show that is not the case
11 years ago
I agree the UK needs millions more big issue sellers and car washers .
?
11 years ago
The anti-immigration lobby are quite incapable of realising anything. Finding themselves at the bottom of society's heap, they can only find self-respect by considering themselves better than nasty foreigners. If only they were capable of getting up off their backsides and doing something useful, we wouldn't have to employ so many immigrants to pay for their benefits.


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